Curse

radbout · Jun 25, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If both the communing and channeling rits have superior runes, they'll go for any spirit. If only the channeling rit does, they'll go after the offensive spirits. But I barely see them going after any spirits, so whatever. The 75hp loss isn't that bad, especially if you keep the communing rit back. The only time it's going to be bad is if you really over-aggro and your party wipes.

I'm sorry I don't completely understand what you meant.

I take it you meant: if only the communing rit does they go after the offensive spirits?
cause the defensive ones got higher armor so they attack the offensive.

I also take it you meant that higher armor does not affect the AI targeting party members over spirits?

Cause if sups make monsters target party members instead of the spirits, they can do their work and protect instead of getting wiped and no longer being able to provide the awesome prot.

That would be another (and I think rather good) reason to consider taking subs.

So what I am interested in is:
How efficiently do sup runes make the communing-hero's spirits take less damage, due to AI that is more likely to target party members over spirits because of the additional armor provided by these sup-runes?

Abedeus · Jun 25, 2009, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

I ran this build and then got an error 7. Thanks, Arkantos.

You are not good enough to run it. You may now leave in disgrace.

Arkantos · Jun 25, 2009, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by radbout

I'm sorry I don't completely understand what you meant.

I take it you meant: if only the communing rit does they go after the offensive spirits?
cause the defensive ones got higher armor so they attack the offensive.

I also take it you meant that higher armor does not affect the AI targeting party members over spirits?

Cause if sups make monsters target party members instead of the spirits, they can do their work and protect instead of getting wiped and no longer being able to provide the awesome prot.

That would be another (and I think rather good) reason to consider taking subs.

So what I am interested in is:
How efficiently do sup runes make the communing-hero's spirits take less damage, due to AI that is more likely to target party members over spirits because of the additional armor provided by these sup-runes?

Yes, that's what I mean, and that's what I posted.

To be honest, I don't exactly know if spirits go after spirits according to health/armor. If they do, then they'd go after the offensive spirits before the defensive ones (assuming the communing rit has a sup). Either way, they should go after minions first.

radbout · Jun 25, 2009, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Btw, Arkantos:
what do you think of turning the Rt/n channel/resto-hero into a N/rt? I posted about that before but as of yet not seen any replies on it. I think it improves the healing part because you can save two skillslots by replacing the energyskills for soulreaping. the loss of some spirithp and offensive power are the obvious drawbacks.

(Still talking about the 1-manbuild)

Edit: OAhjYghr4OVzrZ5EjNOncSzhJA

Arkantos · Jun 25, 2009, 12:44 PM // 12:44

I'd rather stick with the rit. Lack of red bar skills isn't an issue, since you have lots of protection and henchies. I've never had a problem with spirit light (or mbas) being the only healing skill on the heroes bars.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 25, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I think we need a contest going around. Basically 1 human + 3 heroes/hench and then a 2 player + 6 hero contest. Find a moderately difficult vanquish somewhere that would be a good test. Then see who can beat it the fastest, with the least amount of deaths and then test that damage output at the master of whispers.

Just interesting because a lot of people say they don't see xxx build as something special and say you can easily do better than it.

My only concern is reclaim essence should be like a compass range instead of casting range of a spirit. Sometimes I want to run to the next group without waiting and I realize all the spirits= still recharging because reclaim essence was used. I don't know why, I think if the ritualist is barely out of aggro of the enemies it will use reclaim essence even though your still actively fighting the group.

Life Bringing · Jun 26, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Strong MJ honoring Arkantos. Anyways, it appears that the AI is best when the heroes are wielding a staff, so you should probably note that somewhere. Depending on what kind of guild you're looking for, LOD is probably open.

fenix · Jun 26, 2009, 12:21 AM // 00:21

I mentioned on PvX wiki that using a staff is the way we've been doing it, as the Hourglass has good stats and is freeeeee (and infinite in number).

Apparently it also changes the way they use Reclaim. Which is probably why it works so well for us.

Life Bringing · Jun 26, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34

And thats why I said you should put a note about using a staff somewhere. Some on pvx also suggested switching out the Xinrae rit for a necro, which is actually a pretty good idea. You could drop BoC for another heal(ghostmirror?) to make up for the slightly lower healing.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 26, 2009, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Yeah on the wiki it says to use a +5 energy 30hp spear and spawning focus for the reclaim essence ritualist instead.

fenix · Jun 26, 2009, 01:47 AM // 01:47

That won't be correct, because it (apparently) makes the Rit use it wrong. Stick to a staff and you won't have any problems with it.

Vann Borakul · Jun 26, 2009, 02:37 AM // 02:37

I modified my 3-hero build yet again. I think this is as good as it is going to get for 3-hero spirit/minion builds.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...Minion_Masters

Darcryed · Jun 26, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Those team builds look pretty sweet, good job Arkantos & Fenix !

About to try the 1-man build on my D, are vanquishes quicker or simply safer w/ Arkfenway ? I'm planning on vanquishing in the Old Ascalon area and if this is working well I will keep working towards Leg Vanquisher.

EDIT : One more question : basically, any MM build will do ?

fenix · Jun 26, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Darcryed; We're not 100% sure about speed, but so far the build is quite fast. As for safety, this build is FAR safer than any other hero bars. The defense is far superior to other builds, so you shouldn't have any worries about wiping unless you overaggro too much.

Life Bringing · Jun 26, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I would say that Racway has superior defense. About Vann's build, the bars look similar, just with roles switched around

Vann Borakul · Jun 26, 2009, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

I would say that Racway has superior defense. About Vann's build, the bars look similar, just with roles switched around

It's more offensive and has better healing. I dropped Displacement/Shelter/AoU because I don't think you actually need them. Union lasts long enough work without AoU and dropping those allows for greater offense and healing abilities. I think it's better overall.

fenix · Jun 26, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Well Racway arguably has better defense, but it of course comes almost entirely from a human paragon, which of course can fit into this build just as easily. So if you were a non-paragon human player, this build has the better defense.

Life Bringing · Jun 26, 2009, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vann Borakul

It's more offensive and has better healing. I dropped Displacement/Shelter/AoU because I don't think you actually need them. Union lasts long enough work without AoU and dropping those allows for greater offense and healing abilities. I think it's better overall.

Posting in two places is kind of weird, but it definitely needs prot spirit/shelter, lacks condition removal(put in WoR), and sig of sorrows is bad.

Vann Borakul · Jun 26, 2009, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Posting in two places is kind of weird, but it definitely needs prot spirit/shelter, lacks condition removal(put in WoR), and sig of sorrows is bad.

I figured heroes might use Signet of Sorrow really well, but it can interfere with healing even if they do. So it's gone. I don't see any dire need for prot spirit/shelter. I blazed through some Roaring Ethers and SF djinns earlier without any problems. There weren't any large packets of damage that truly needed to be stopped. Besides MBaS, there aren't any cond removals, and most monk henches I've looked at so far don't have cond removal, so WoR is definitely usable.

zelgadissan · Jun 26, 2009, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Alright, I said I'd post my Urgoz HM results...

Humans were a mesmer, ranger, dervish, and necro. We don't speed clear and we don't act like we do - we run our main professions with pretty much whatever builds we choose and we do it for fun. If you want to know my build, I'll gladly share - it was junky. Six ArkFenway heroes, a smite monk to SoH the dervish, and an offensive paragon.

The heroes stood up extremely well. I'm not going to bother with telling you our time because we kept freezing continuously, I lagged out for what was close to ten minutes, had a guildie get caught in one of the closing doors (it happened to me before, I'd link it from Game Bugs but cba to manually find it with search down) so we had to wait on him to vamp out and then Rebirth him, etc. The only point where we even had a chance of failure was when we all froze mid-fight, and guess what? The OP rit heroes had killed an entire mob of nine enemies by the time we got back.

The point is the heroes translate quite well to the 12-man area. The time won't ever match up to what a big CoP speed-group can (could?) do - at the same time, if you have 12 people why would you run these heroes - but for the average GW player, Urgoz HM was and would be a breeze.